Uncarded Character Ban

[Ashtyn]

Heya folks - we (the staff) wanted to drop a brief note on the forum to explain a recent action taken with one of our players. Normally this kind of issue isn't given much highlight, but in this case we feel it's both safe to share, as there aren't really any major privacy concerns, and we think it illustrates our expectations about fair play and good conduct.

It recently came to our attention that Levi has been playing a very complex character with some potent abilities, and has been doing so without an approved card while getting involved in multiple relevant plots. This isn't fair to our players that have put in the work to write an approvable card, and Levi was asked to write a card for her character.

We've explained why this is a problem and have spent a number of hours working with Levi to try and resolve the issue, but after 20 days no attempt at a card has been received. As a result, we are banning the 'Doc' Levi character permanently, and issuing a temporary ban to the player, after which she is welcome to apply for a new character if she still wishes to play at Lismore.

We don't enjoy handing out bans, but we do expect everyone to play nice. It is our job as staff and referees for the sim and the RP to maintain fairness of play across all players and PCs. We make relatively few direct demands of the players, but when they are asked, we have to ask folks to put in an effort to cooperate if they wish to play here.

If anyone has any questions about this, we can't promise to answer as some matters of staff conduct are private, but feel free to send a note we will do what we can.

Levi's character is to be considered simply to have gone missing. We apologize if this causes disruption to anyone's ongoing plans.

[Karlhockey Forte]

Levi's character is to be considered simply to have gone missing. We apologize if this causes disruption to anyone's ongoing plans.

And by disruption, you mean basically screwing up a huge amount of things in relation to Phoenix and other things.

I don't exactly know how deep of conversations have been going on, but I know that the player has been having a lot of RL issues that have been cropping up. Is a flat out ban, as opposed to a suspension of ability to play said character until a card was submitted the right way to go?

[Tenaar Feiri]

Levi's character is to be considered simply to have gone missing. We apologize if this causes disruption to anyone's ongoing plans.

And by disruption, you mean basically screwing up a huge amount of things in relation to Phoenix and other things.

I don't exactly know how deep of conversations have been going on, but I know that the player has been having a lot of RL issues that have been cropping up. Is a flat out ban, as opposed to a suspension of ability to play said character until a card was submitted the right way to go?

I feel that I have to chime in here. An uncarded character is basically not allowed to have much, if any impact, with anything. Faction-related matters or non.
From what I understand, Levi's been very uncooperative about the notecard (& even reluctant to write one, if she hasn't procured a card after 20 days' warning), and before her being uncarded came to light, Levi had ICly already hugely influenced the direction of several of my characters, as well as gotten in the way plotlines I was doing many months ago. She's used abilities ICly which completely shifted the direction I was going with some characters (Oba-Musa, for one), and then I later learned that none of that was approved.

You've to understand how frustrating that is (note: I'm a player, just like you) and how much being uncarded in itself is disruptive to RP.
I respect Levi for her ability to roleplay, I really do. I thoroughly enjoyed playing with her, but after everything that's come to light recently, I think Levi has been unfair and tactless by not submitting a card for approval (though she's had ample time to do so), and I agree that allowing that character to continue to be in Lismore would be an insult to all approved characters in the sim.

So yes, it's definitely the right way to go. And I believe the staff is being very nice about this.

[Karlhockey Forte]

I realize the issue regarding the fact the character hasn't been carded. I just am looking at this from the players side and realizing that this is going to effectively neuter Phoenix, already hurting for activity, into barely having any players left. You can't just shrug off a character that has been in plots and act like nothing is awry when they "disappear." There are going to be a good deal of people that are no longer going to have any reason to RP in Phoenix, are going to leave because Levi was the link that kept them there. 

My real concern here is whether or not the fallout of this was thought out. You said right there that it was well known how involved this character was. It seemed to be thought out well what your plan was to deal with the initial problem of the character, but very little was paid in attention to the effects said action would have.

[Tenaar Feiri]

I realize the issue regarding the fact the character hasn't been carded. I just am looking at this from the players side and realizing that this is going to effectively neuter Phoenix, already hurting for activity, into barely having any players left. You can't just shrug off a character that has been in plots and act like nothing is awry when they "disappear." There are going to be a good deal of people that are no longer going to have any reason to RP in Phoenix, are going to leave because Levi was the link that kept them there. 

My real concern here is whether or not the fallout of this was thought out. You said right there that it was well known how involved this character was. It seemed to be thought out well what your plan was to deal with the initial problem of the character, but very little was paid in attention to the effects said action would have.

What consequences the action has to RP should be irrelevant; Levi broke the rules. Now she suffers the reprisal. The collateral damage, while unfortunate, will only help reinforce the rules. I'm sorry if that seems heartless, but just because a character or player is "important", doesn't mean they should be treated differently than anyone else. Levi may have been very involved, and this will disrupt the plots she's been involved with. However, these disruptions will sort themselves out & when they do, the carded characters resume life as normal, starting their own plots again, etc.
At the end of the day, carded > uncarded.

[Karlhockey Forte]

To sum up. This sim cares about its rules more than the RP itself. I guess I understand that now.

[Novaku]

We are well aware of Levi's activity within Phoenix, but ultimately the rules stands above the RP. Levi was not given any form of repercussion for having played uncarded for so long and given a chance to fill in a card, twenty days later no card was still given despite the deadline.

Now, you must know that Levi had already two strikes against her, of which I will not reveal here as such is between the Staff and Levi, this is basically the third strike and we have taken action with a ban.

While we understand what this can mean for the RP and all, we cannot ignore the standing facts that Levi broke the rules and we have thusly acted upon them.

[Caex]

karl if you want to badmouth us take it somewhere else. we have more important things to concider than someone being unhappy about someone else who blatantly refused to follow our rules getting banned.

[Tenaar Feiri]

To sum up. This sim cares about its rules more than the RP itself. I guess I understand that now.

You should be grateful; without the rules, this sim would be a horrible place to be. But the rules mean nothing if they're not enforced. Sim staff is just like the police; they need to enforce the rules and create real consequences for people who break them, even if those consequences will make other people unhappy about them.

The collateral damage this has caused isn't the staff's fault, but Levi's for breaking the rules.

[Karlhockey Forte]

I honestly, as much as the whole things annoys me, am not as pissed off at the fact she got banned for what she did.

I am pissed off because very little was thought out for the after effects of what this is going to cause, beyond "Oh, it will sort itself out." Really? You, as a sim staff are perfectly okay with going through and enacting something like this, and not worrying that this could kill off a already hurting factions RP activity, and potentially drive players away, because some people, the only reason they do RP is for a select few, and when they are gone, so are they. I find that disgusting and irresponsible as a ideal, and I have /never/ run into a RP that seems to not care about the fact that something they do would have that type of effect. Every time, it has been thought out, worked on, tweaked, adjusted, in instances even myself assisting in doing so to minimize the effect something like this would have. All this seems to me is a tactic of lighting the problem on fire, and going 'oopsie' as everything unrelated catches fire.


Edit: Caex, I am not going to just shut up, make a pretty face and go about my business if I feel something is wrong. If no one is every vocal over a issue they have,  complacency and bad decisions start to occur because no one has a compass to know what is wrong.

[Novaku]

We can NOT please everyone, it is impossible, we have to ensure the rules, it is what we do. It is our job.

I find it personally insulting that you blame us for ruining the RP over the fact of banning someone who has been given plenty of time to send in her card in order to get herself approved.

But besides that, we are well aware of what this can mean to Phoenix and what it may result into, but you cannot expect us to turn a blind eye to someone who obviously has been breaking the rules for the sake of keeping the RP flowing.

Like Tenaar reffered to with the police. You don't expect them to not arrest a criminal for the fact it ruins something else. The rules are not there for nothing after all.

[Caex]

I honestly, as much as the whole things annoys me, am not as pissed off at the fact she got banned for what she did.

I am pissed off because very little was thought out for the after effects of what this is going to cause, beyond "Oh, it will sort itself out." Really? You, as a sim staff are perfectly okay with going through and enacting something like this, and not worrying that this could kill off a already hurting factions RP activity, and potentially drive players away, because some people, the only reason they do RP is for a select few, and when they are gone, so are they. I find that disgusting and irresponsible as a ideal, and I have /never/ run into a RP that seems to not care about the fact that something they do would have that type of effect. Every time, it has been thought out, worked on, tweaked, adjusted, in instances even myself assisting in doing so to minimize the effect something like this would have. All this seems to me is a tactic of lighting the problem on fire, and going 'oopsie' as everything unrelated catches fire.

you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. a hurting faction? ohh boo freakedy hoo. have you seen the temple active population lately? didn't think so. oh wait what about the city population! have they come out of hiding? ... nope still sparce... hmm lets check on the zenko... ah casualty counts high this time of year eh? we concidered it karl and have taken measures to ensure it doesnt destablize. it's called lismore lands karl, not pheonix lands. our responcibility is to the entire sim as a whole. factions fall and get rebuilt. pheonix has already fallen twice before and it's been rebuilt twice before. having it fall again and then be rebuilt as a better faction is not so disheartning that it stops us in our tracks.

but if you're so incluned to see the doom of pheonix simply because we banned the character levi, who by all rights we should have VOIDED all rp associated with her per our policies, i can arange that. i can technicaly construct an event that will be the total destruction of the pheonix castle and turn the caves into a canyon. emagine, wonderfull open air above your heads, castles built into the walls themselves, it will be glorious. oh but that would require change, such a terrable thing. if you cant adapt to a small little change like this, a minisqule neigh meaningless change such as this, you have a lot to learn about being human.

[Karlhockey Forte]

I am just going to ignore Caex trying to be a dick to me because I have a problem with something.


Now I having a massive problem with Ash. Why?

You banned a character and player, and didn't even discuss the fact that you did that. I, a player, not a GM, or Admin, or anyone of a position of power just broke the news to Levi that this was decided. What the hell?

[14:45] Doctor Levidensis (levidensis.collas): what?
[14:45] Nakita Forte (karlhockey.forte): What happened to the doctor as a character
[14:46] Doctor Levidensis (levidensis.collas): i'm a little confused
[14:46] Nakita Forte (karlhockey.forte): . . .
[14:46] Nakita Forte (karlhockey.forte): did they not IM you
[14:46] Doctor Levidensis (levidensis.collas): nope
[14:46] Nakita Forte (karlhockey.forte): http://sculptyworks.com/lismore/index.php?topic=660.0
[14:48] Doctor Levidensis (levidensis.collas): i told him that xela was going to help me, and i hadn't gotten a hold of her, oh well. looks like i'm leaving lismore permanently. drekihelm is pretty nice anyways

[Novaku]

Caex...do try to be civil please.


And Karl, Levi was not online at the moment that the ban was decided upon, furthermore Ash had to go due to RL issues.

Fact however remains, that Levi had been given several warnings and a deadline even, she failed to produce a card to us despite everything, the verdict was made.

[Tenaar Feiri]

I honestly, as much as the whole things annoys me, am not as pissed off at the fact she got banned for what she did.

I am pissed off because very little was thought out for the after effects of what this is going to cause, beyond "Oh, it will sort itself out." Really? You, as a sim staff are perfectly okay with going through and enacting something like this, and not worrying that this could kill off a already hurting factions RP activity, and potentially drive players away, because some people, the only reason they do RP is for a select few, and when they are gone, so are they. I find that disgusting and irresponsible as a ideal, and I have /never/ run into a RP that seems to not care about the fact that something they do would have that type of effect. Every time, it has been thought out, worked on, tweaked, adjusted, in instances even myself assisting in doing so to minimize the effect something like this would have. All this seems to me is a tactic of lighting the problem on fire, and going 'oopsie' as everything unrelated catches fire.


Edit: Caex, I am not going to just shut up, make a pretty face and go about my business if I feel something is wrong. If no one is every vocal over a issue they have,  complacency and bad decisions start to occur because no one has a compass to know what is wrong.

You should just let it go, Karl. You can tell a brick wall that it's made of wood as much as you like, but that doesn't make it into one. You're not going to change anything and it's wasted effort to try and argue this decision.

I'm sorry you feel that this is going to mess up a whole lot, but the truth is that it'll only mess things up for people who've been involved with Levi for a few weeks at most. Then it'll all settle back into its normal place.
People aren't going to leave because the rules are being enforced either, so that argument's null and void.

Fact is, the rules were broken, sanctions were made. It's the actions of the rule breaker that has created any problems this may cause in the immediate future, not the rule enforcers. I've never seen anyone stir up so much drama as you're doing right now, Karl, over rules being enforced. Rules that are very clearly visible and easily accessible in the spawn point, as well as iterated on over and over again in character and rule cards.

There is no excuse. There is no special treatment. It is just the rules!

Seriously, just let it go.

You banned a character and player, and didn't even discuss the fact that you did that. I, a player, not a GM, or Admin, or anyone of a position of power just broke the news to Levi that this was decided. What the hell?

The staff, while it's courteous to do so, has no obligation to inform players that they have been banned from the sim imo (character bans is a whole other matter). That said, Levi had no doubt known that if she couldn't procure a card within 20 days, there would be consequences. Such a warning would have been pretty clear anyway.