Author Topic: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!  (Read 8409 times)

Ashtyn

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The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« on: May 04, 2013, 02:31:05 pm »
  It seems we can't go but a few months without this topic being brought up. Unfortunately that's the way things are when the economy is bad and the grid is expensive....

  Once again we're faced with the trouble of raising money to cover our monthly tier. In fact we've been faced with this problem for a couple of months already, but some very generous donations have kept us afloat.

  The staff has been debating the tier issue at great length in that time, and our conclusion is that if we have no other alternative, we must move to the backup location I've had ready and maintained for years, just in case, because since the beginning I realized what a financial strain paying US$300/month to LL could be.

  So now it's time to ask the players what they think.

  There are two players who have been making very generous donations, but we concluded that the situation is very hard to sustain, and that perhaps downsizing would be a wise idea.

  If people are still willing to commit money to the cause for the foreseeable future, things stay as they are.



  For those who aren't familiar with the situation, for about 2 1/2 years I paid the tier for Lismore all on my own. But my financial situation became very complicated and we set up donation boxes and started actively asking people to help with the bill.

  We had some extremely generous donations and humble donations and all helped us stay up and running for another year-and-a-half give or take, but with one of our biggest sponsors also having changes in his financial situation in RL, we're in a tight spot once again.

  The tier for a Full Sim in SL is US$295/month (L$80000 - give or take depending on the exchange rate of the day). I don't know about you all but to me that's no pocket change. It's the most expensive bill I have besides mortgage payments - it's more expensive than my internet and electricity and telephone combined!

  Due to that, for the longest time I've maintained a 'backup' for Lismore in my MaindLand parcel at Clockwork, so if the day came when I couldn't cover the Full Sim bill, we'd have a place to move the RP to and carry on!

  MainLand land works completely different than Private Region land. I'm capable of having so much MainLand for a fraction of what the Private Region costs because MainLand tier can be split amongst multiple users with Premium accounts. Also MainLand tier is significantly cheaper than Private Region tier, because the Lindens are clever bloodsuckers like that (a full MainLand region is US$195/month).

  So the conclusion we have come is that while we absolutely love our Private Region (and trust me it's devastating to me to consider not having it!), it might be time to cut costs and move the RP to the backup location (affectionately dubbed LismoreLite by Radem).
  Before you say "eeww, MainLand!", take a moment to check the place out.

  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Clockwork/228/250/1701  <- Main Entry Point
  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Clockwork/173/221/1705  <- Middle of the city
  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Clockwork/152/219/1883  <- The Temple & Forests
  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Clockwork/170/218/1674  <- Caves (because Xela has to have her caves ;) )

  The place hasn't been fully furnished yet so the buildings and all are rather bare, but that would change the moment a "let's move" decision was made.

  Clockwork is on the same server class as Lismore, shares the server with the same number of regions, and I'm the major land owner there and most of the rest of the place is abandoned land because I ruined the region for everyone else by taking the best spot and blocking the view.  ;)

  LismoreLite is installed in a gigantic skybox in the sky, which would make it less likely for griefers and casual passer-byers to stop by (statistically as unlikely as they are to get to the Full Sim at the moment - the place is listed on search after all, anyone can find it).

  ....and yes, we're on floating islands.

  We have thought and debated at great length about this move (for about two months), and worked hard to get things ready if we do have to make the move. We have events planned and stories/explanations in place to tie the moving to floating islands with what we have in the Full Sim.

  So now, it comes to the players to tell us what they think! ...Got questions? Comments? Opinions? Got money you don't mind blowing every month to help us keep our beloved Full Sim?  ;)    If we can not get enough money committed to paying the sim's tier, we will be moving within the next few weeks.

  I'd hate to see anyone go simply because of our change in location. Radem, who's a veteran from the good old days of MUCK RP, would say as long as the spirit of the RP remains, we could be on a black screen with white text for all he cares and he'd still be around. You are all welcome and needed in Lismore, whether it's a huge open track of land in an expensive region, or a packed floating island in the skies.

Husky Dragon

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2013, 09:24:22 am »
Come on guys, we REALLY need to weigh in on all this! This is about the not-so-distant future of the sim that we all play on!

Lili

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2013, 01:20:45 pm »
Bet if i would have the money to spare i would gladly blow it on keeping the Sim as it is. x..x I am dead honest now; I do not like the idea of a smaller place. I do not like having the city that just earned that name become a tiny village again that turning from Rome to 1/5 of a cake. But i dont think anyone really likes that.

But as one of the few that saw the whole thing and got told about it a few weeks ago already, i need to say that Ash did a good job in creating the Islands. They are small, yes, but they are detailed and still are quite comfy and complex... still far more complex than the old city was before the rebuild. Actually; I think those that have been used to play in the Pre-2013-City won't mind the new place. It still feels bigger... and i myself will still play there as much as before, even if it's not having so many rooms to hide anymore. We are there for the RP after all, and not for fancy buildings... And im sure that the size will encourage people to get closer together... Im sure we find a way to make it home.

After we shot whoever is causing the lag in that Sim... ...but i digress. <..<

I think i could write a lot now. Like i think that we probably need to turn more steam-punk-ish on first thought to play with those islands. But im actually curious what you guys came up with to explain that. x3
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Husky Dragon

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2013, 01:26:56 pm »
Like i think that we probably need to turn more steam-punk-ish on first thought to play with those islands.

I think we already have too much steampunk as it is :3 We did give our explanation alot of thought though. It doesn't really require us to mess with the time period at all.

Ashtyn

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 03:29:07 pm »
even if it's not having so many rooms to hide anymore.

Here is where suggestions come in!  ;)
You want rooms to hide? What sort of rooms? Tell me more! I've been working so far solely on what I can come up with, and then with the input of the staff.
The reason why we post this here for all the players to see is because we want to know what they want! Not all ideas are going to be implemented, but we like to know what people think would be good to have and what we can implement, we surely will, and what we can't, we simply can't.  :)

Lou

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 07:25:51 pm »
I haven't visited the locations yet but I'll keep in mind to do so and roll out suggestions I might have, but for now, I'm going to just say this in as few words as I can.

If the costs are so high and it's impossible to maintain(not that I'd ask anyone to maintain THREE HUNDRED DOLLAHS A MONTH HOLY TITS) then there's simply no choice. We have to go for the cheaper alternative, sacrifice the quality of the RP environment for the sake of still having the RP existing at all. Maybe someone out there might have the financial stability to help pay for it - I don't know anyone who does. Thus, I don't like the change, I don't like *forced* change, but it's unavoidable change.
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TheGreatBeatrix

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2013, 08:41:42 pm »
My first impulse was to go "THIS IS A STUPID. >8C IT WOULD BREAK EVERYTHING." But after visiting the place and dwelling on it a bit, I think there might actually be more genius to the idea than first impressions even allow. Imma break this down to numbered topics because that's how I do:

1. Redefining Sim Layout

Sim layout is super duper extremely important. Why? Because it dictates the hot spots for RP. Currently Lismore has a lot of land, but not a lot of people visiting all parts of the sim. The fact that those other parts are thousands of meters up in the air, though, is a problem, as this segregates the RPers. It means that anyone playing in the phoenix spot in the caves up at 3000+ can not see or be seen by players on ground level and therefore there is less a chance that those other players could even think to try and join them. This was a large problem in Vemnyal, where there was this big elaborate ground setup but anything worth doing was on a different plane 1000+ in the air. This created a huge rift amongst players and made the sim seem absolutely barren to people coming in.

The short of it is that multi-tiered "planes" are a badawful idea, especially when you have a limited pool of players. This is one of the reasons why I advocate the idea of smaller, more close-knit islands in the air, as it allows for those places to exist in a logical fashion. Personally I think they should be a wee bit closer together spacially, but it would be super important to make sure there is a very clear, functional, and easy way to get to and from each place by the average person. I noticed the "Gryphon ride" thing, but something even more super-stupid simple as well, like balloon lifts, something where it isn't a big production for a character to go between areas, yet also makes the city itself look super smart and helpful.

2. Use of space

The redefined "island theme" of the sim would also provide for a better use of space, this means more things happening in a more concentrated area that more people can get in on. Lismore's player base is a little thin at the moment, which isn't necessarily bad, but it requires a lot more thinking on how to keep things fun, interesting, and engaging. At the moment, you could have 10 players on sim, but only see 2 or 3 others, with a pocket of two or three people at 1600, 2990, and even just 200m out across the ground level doing their thing, to which your character has no reason to go to said place. When the whole of the sim is in a ~100m island at varying degrees of space it leaves less room to "spread out" per se and opens up more opportunities for others to pass by and play.

3. Sim Progression
The radical reshaping of the sim would open up new gates for story progression with a sort of passage of time going. I'm sure there's already something story-wise mapped out by the admins but the fact would still remain that it allows for a bit more period-fantasy to be injected into the sim. This would almost be necessary to explain off how the city would still even function so high up in the air, how people would come and go, how it would still have trade, how it would do business in general. Personally I'm guessing lots of hot air technology and maigc stuff. p.o
________

Besides those main points, there are a few inputs I have. Firstly, I notice the newer area could do with a few accessibility touchups. Like, I couldn't even figure out how to get out of the caves, I felt like I was breaking the prims just trying to squeeze out of some random crack I found. Couldn't really figure out how to go between islands without teleporting or flying either. The other thing I noticed was that there are a lot of megaprims or whatnot there for the islands' bases, but I have to wonder if it might be possible to kinda hollow them out a bit and put said 'hideaway areas' down in them for a bit more private/quiet RP's or even faction areas. Aside from that, I guess I just have to wonder about all the fine details of a move like this; weather? Business? People coming and going? How far removed from the world would it become? Etc.

-Bea

Husky Dragon

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2013, 08:46:42 pm »
We've done alot of thought about what's going to be happening functionally and story-wise in the sim passed this point. Believe me, we're not going into this blind. :)

Ashtyn

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2013, 08:23:46 am »
Thanks for taking the time to explore the place and post your analytical view of it, Bea.    :)

I have planned some 'accesibility features' to be implemented, mainly a 'tutorial' describing features and places for people to familiarize themselves with things. But if you found the gryphon rides just from being around for a while, it can't be too hard to discover how it all works simply from exploring the place, and that's ultimately the idea!

There is also the intention of using the 'underground space' (hollowing the megaprims), but it hasn't been implemented yet because it is the type of thing that requires feedback from the players. We could build all sorts of 'hangout places', but in the end only one or two get used.   ;)

...as for the caves... well, you started from the inside, of course you wouldn't know the way out right away. Like starting at the center of a maze, any way could be the way out.

The fine details will all be explained in time, but it all is rather simple, really: The weather is similar to the weather on the big sim, but now we can actually have cloudy skies and all that thanks to being in control of what makes up our 'sky' (spend a long amount of time there and you will see it  ;) ). To come and go from the floating islands, the preferred method would be a teleport portal that would exist somewhere down on earth, specifically, where the Full Sim Lismore use(d) to exist. I'm not 100% sure if we have finalized the decision on whether the floating islands exist on a different dimension altogether or are simply floating high above the Earth somewhere, but we will make the background known in time (a lot of it ties to events being planned and played already). As for 'business', of course the place would offer something(s) high in value, otherwise a civilization wouldn't thrive there. Again, such things will be elaborated upon in due time.  ;)

As heartbreaking as it is to have to downsize, we believe that this is a case where less is more.    :)

Lili

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2013, 07:57:29 pm »
I think we already have too much steampunk as it is :3 We did give our explanation alot of thought though. It doesn't really require us to mess with the time period at all.

I don't really like to much technic either... i just... try to help somehow with ideas... even if they are silly. ._.

Also i like to report that Lismore Lite is Kira-Approved as in totally Parkour-Friendly with a little help from Ash. |D
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Ashtyn

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2013, 11:42:16 pm »
Also i like to report that Lismore Lite is Kira-Approved as in totally Parkour-Friendly with a little help from Ash. |D

...that's where player feedback is really important: She went around jumping from place to place and I tweaked the physics of weak spots to enable the character to do her thing.

So tell us what you think needs doing, what you think needs tweaking, what you'd like to see, what you wouldn't like to see! Not all suggestions are feasible but we will work on the ones we can.  :)

Ashtyn

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Re: The Tier/Moving Conundrum!
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 12:29:47 pm »
...and a bit of a correction on the technical data:

LL very recently (as in, Friday!) updated the Clockwork AND Lismore regions to 801 servers, which are newer hardware but oftentimes share the server with more regions. But interestingly enough, Lismore is sharing the server with 15 other regions and Clockwork only shares it with 10 other regions. Go figure.  :P

(still, "Full Regions" run on a core each, whether they are MainLand or private regions. Homesteads share a core between 4 regions, and OpenSim shares a core between 8 regions)