Lismore Lands Forum
Lismore => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ashtyn on March 28, 2012, 12:17:26 am
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So it's the 28th of March, and we're still L$7,000 short of Lismore's monthly tier. This has been a recurring situation for quite a few months. February was no problem because of one HUGE! generous donation, but since October of last year, we've been in trouble.
Let me throw some numbers at you folks who like numbers....
Our monthly tier is L$83,000. That amounts to about US$295-300 every month just on tier. SL can be a VERY EXPENSIVE hobby.
(the donations box lies, it's not L$65k. We put L$65k there because early on it was voted that EIGHTY-THREE THOUSAND was too scary of a number)
My SL sales are what pays for Lismore's tier. If I'm short on sales and donations at the end of the month, I put out my own cash to cover the remaining cost.
(if there's a surplus, it rolls over to the next month. Surpluses have been of about L$3k on average if there is any).
Sales were steady and predictable for two years, which with market research indicated to me that it wasn't product performance that was causing the decline that started to happen when the Lindens started to mess up with things and RL economy started to go downhill for real.
Since October 2011, SL sales have been declining drastically (and before then, they were declining already, but October marked the "we're in trouble!" date); the whole of SL's economy seems to be collapsing, and LindenLabs isn't making things easier for us old time merchants. In February, my Marketplace sales surpassed for the first time my in-world sales, both in volume and L$ amount. And I am often in contact with other merchants, and they too confirmed that the majority of their sales are coming from the Marketplace these days. The problem with that is that if you are selling from the Marketplace, you don't need land for a store. You don't have the HUGE! overhead that is land/sim tier, so you can practically give your products away for free. I can't do that, I have a US$400/month bill to pay to LL ($300 tier, and more or less $100 on advertisements and classifieds ads and other promotional means without which sales don't happen and my MainLand backup store). I can't sell something that takes me 2 months to make for L$100 on the Marketplace (example of prices of some houses I've seen there).
The bottomline is: I am no longer capable of paying the tier for Lismore on my own with SL sales, and I absolutely can not fund it with RL money.
Don't think I want the RP to end, or to call it quits, no. Not at all. I love Lismore and I love having it for people to RP and have fun there!
But these are the facts. I can't afford the bill on my own.
But like any good business person (or super-villain!), I accounted for such potential problem, and was able to devise options to keep Lismore afloat.
The first option is to find dedicated sponsors.
The pros of this are:
- We keep our beautiful sim!
- Nothing changes in the storyline or events.
- I won't stress myself sick because of the SL bill - Ok, this one is a selfish one. ;)
- Nothing changes. Everything you've come to enjoy stays the same.
The cons are:
- I'm capable of affording up to US$50/month, so that leaves US$250/month for others to pay.
- ...that's it really, US$250/month to be distributed amongst sponsors.
The other option is what I refer to as the Plan B.
Plan B constitutes of moving key RP facilities to my MainLand land, thus enabling us to continue to RP, even though we would be in a smaller, confined space.
I've been preparing this backup plan since October when I started to really worry about Lismore's tier. You can visit the models for the city at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Lismore/153/119/1560 and for the Temple at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Lismore/151/98/1664. I have a plan for allocating space for the Phoenix faction, and the little outlaw island can be easily copied from Lismore to a new location. We would lose our forest, endless sea, and I haven't been able to come up with prims for the Desert faction... yet, but I have a plan for the Zenko folks.
The Pros of Plan B are:
- I can afford the tier on my own indefinetely if sales/donations don't make up for it, although donations will still be welcome and will help, as always!
- Potential for drastic plot and storyline changes in the RP that could lead to interesting new stories.
- ...some people like floating islands.
The cons of Plan B are:
- We lose our beautiful sim as it is. The floating islands will be installed in the sky, far above where casual pass-byers can stumble upon us, but still, we won't have a whole region for ourselves anymore.
- No more rezzing/sandboxing/building of any kind will be allowed in the land, because simply there won't be any prims to accomodate that.
- Two people will lose their homes they currently have in my MainLand area (I'm truly sorry, but I need the prims).
- No more Desert.
- No more building area (sandbox), which has been shared by pretty much everyone in the staff to build things for the RP and even by some casual players or friends. They will have to use sandboxes elsewhere.
- ...I'm probably forgetting a lot of negative aspects of this move.
Plan B is a last resort option I came up with to ensure those who still want to RP with us would have a place to continue doing the things they did in Lismore. It's not ideal, it's by far not perfect, and it will inconvenience many people, but it's all I can offer if we can not find people willing to sponsor Lismore. These are not choices I present to you lightly. I hesitated a whole month, hoping things would improve, but they didn't. They have steadily leveled out at 'unsatisfactory levels'. I can't hold on anymore on my own. If we are going to keep Lismore up and running as it is, I need help, and not just casual occasional help. I need dedicated help, from people willing to devote themselves to keep the RP going as much as I did for the almost 3 years I paid 90% of the bill on my own.
Please feel free to share your thoughts.
-Ash
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So, that is 10 sponsors at $25 a month or 25 at $10 a month. Much less scary sounding than $250, Ash Darlin'.
Ardyn and I can absolutely sponsor at least one of those 10 slots reliably, and we can probably cover a second slot if needed.
Calling for sponsors is a good move, Ash, we should be taking more of the financial burden for ourselves.
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We theoretically have at least 80 members we can account for. Of those, about 20 are active full-time, and another 15 are casually on and off with us.
So if you do break down the numbers like that, yes, it's much more accessible, and afforable.
And thanks to some generous donations, we are Ok for this month's tier. Thank you!
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And I have added a little poll so people can express their opinions in the form of simple statistics data.
Please vote, your opinion is very important to us!
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I vote for Plan B because online folks and furries are both notoriously flaky bunches. A small number are very grounded, generous, sensible people, and we're lucky to have some of them playing here. You know who you are, and thank you. Most, however, are not. Combine that with a lot of people these days not being in the best position financially, and I think the writing's on the wall.
It doesn't hurt to spend a month looking for people to commit some L$ to the sim, or even try to get creative about how to incent people to do it. RL, the reason they do the pledge drives where they give away t-shirts and mugs is because those drives work. 50-50 raffles work too. Little perks work, that way people feel like they have some skin in the game and aren't just giving away something for nothing.
But, if it becomes clear that there's not enough commitment, I don't see that it's worth the stress or financial pain to keep operating at a loss.
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I love Lismore and I'd hate to see it go down.
So I'll help sponsor it with $50 or more each month =3 I love y'all and Lismore really means a lot to me, so I'll help however I can!
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I love Lismore and I'd hate to see it go down.
So I'll help sponsor it with $50 or more each month =3 I love y'all and Lismore really means a lot to me, so I'll help however I can!
Thank you Tenaar, and we love you too! :)
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I'm with TenTen, I can probably sponsor around $30 each month, but for a few months I'll be put down to 15-25 ish. Best i can do, but I hope it helps. Been in lismore for a few years, Don't want it to go down now!
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I think a sponsorship would be a tenuous and unreliable thing to try and make happen. Yes it would help us keep the current sim, however I think that the current sim does have a lot of fat on it and there's much more space than is needed for our current population density.
As for Plan B - I actually like the idea of floating islands. There's so many ways to make that happen - a world torn asunder, the global population reduced to a trickle of individuals. It could make for a very interesting transition in the focus of the RP sim - from terrestrial threats to airborne ones. The introduction of magic-fueled airships, a heavier focus on Lismore as a trading hub (a last bastion for the exchange of currency, goods and ideas) and a new series of threats (airship piracy, winged beasts, 'deep ones' from the sunken world below) all become possible.
Plan B would also allow Ashtyn to increase sim traffic, and could potentially boost his market presence and Lismore's existence in Search results. This might help bring in new visitors. I've gone ahead and taken a look at Ashtyn's builds for the Plan B, and I actually like them quite a bit. They're a little sparse, but they have everything we as an RP community currently need and use.
If we as an RP community are willing to accept dramatic changes to the storyline and setting of Lismore (floating islands vs. terrestrial), I think this could be an opportunity to really focus Lismore into a high-magic (and potentially higher artificer-style technology) sim and further deviate it from the other furry RP sims out there.
Still, I'm not sure how everyone else would enjoy Plan B. I personally would be comfortable surrendering my in-sim prims for the change in flavor, plus I think stress levels on everyone would decline significantly without that pesky tier harassing Ashtyn n' pals.
I personally couldn't be a sponsor, as I don't know how reliable my financial situation is going to be in the coming months and years, but if we get enough to make tier I'd still be content.
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I'll contribute what I can, likely in the region of $50+, but will not know for sure till I sort out finances next month (Just got a threat to be taken to court over £160... damn virgin. Not to mention £400 taxes)
I personally want to do everything I can to avoid being split up. One thing I've always loved about Lismore is the wide open areas so you can travel from the city to the temple and zenko without any teleports.
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I'm torn, while I feel the same as Xela... Sen makes a strong point and the changes could really shake up the current RP. I'm for the sponsoring, and would be willing to help out. But, if the plan falls through and Plan B is go, well... I'll still come to Lismore indefinitely.
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I really don't want to see the sim split up and become a part of the mainland. I don't really have a good reason for thinking so, but in my opinion it would feel wrong.
I like Lismore because it is a secluded place where RP can prosper, a place that people who don't want to RP would rarely stumble upon, leaving us roleplayers in peace. The sim is a great place and while the whole floating islands does sound interesting, I don't really like the thought of being confined on the mainland.
I already tried to RP on the mainland as well but it just doesn't do it for me; whenever I've tried RPing on a RP parcel there, I keep being interrupted by non-roleplayers or have to endure shitty viewer performance, or other inconveniences.
Heck, the biggest reason I rarely TP out of Lismore today is that I can't stand the performance drops I experience by heading to the mainland, and I don't want my computer to overheat (again).
What I would suggest would be to rather move the store we've got way up on top of Lismore to the mainland to release all the prims it consumes, and then downgrade the sim type/prim limit/whatever it is that makes the sim so expensive to reduce the tier cost.
Or offer players a bit more incentive to stay by offering rental "homes" we can reserve for our characters, that serve as their home in the RP world for a weekly L$ fee. There is a demand and I'm sure that a bunch of people would be more than happy to rent homes for their chars here. It could provide a somewhat more stable source of income.
but imho, moving to the mainland has to remain a last resort option. All plots that could emerge from it notwithstanding, I'd like to see Lismore stay as a separate sim.
That, and moving elsewhere is a scary thought D:
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Okay.. I will share my opinion here, looking at votes and replies.. While plan B presents some interesting opportunities for plots and floating islands might be cool, I don't personally feel that either are very good reasons on their own to change the sim if it turns out we'll have the option to keep it alive as it is.
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now that im working full time, i can so a sponsered slot, $25 is not alot to me thanks to the exchange rate, if i can stump up more, i will do, though i cant start till may 1st due to this being my first pay check, lots to clear first :P
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Sadly, I had seen allready 3 rp sim first cutting back to something similar as Plan B and then completly die out in population.
On the otherside, I and some friends, had a rp place on a small parcel running for some time, with rather high atmosphere, but tight knitted community and much of coordinated rp events. Once those became less frequent, because a plot line ended, the motivation went down rather fast.
I would rather prefer a "whole" sim.
Though, if it comes to Plan B, I might be able to help out with a small place, to some degree. (How dubious that ever might sound from someone who made his first post in the forum with this ^^')
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Plan B sounds rather drastic, and I can't help but think having a few good sponsors would make things much easier.
To be completely honest, I think sponsors are the way to go.
There is also the sad possibility that you may end up needing to charge people for group entry/card approval.
How short are you again on teir this month? I many be able to donate $20 tomorrow, as it is getting into gig season and I work as road crew.
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First of all, thanks everybody for their support! ...where's the little heart emoticon... a happy face will do! :)
Second, this isn't yet an "abandon ship" call. We're facing some hard financial times. Considering how bad RL and SL economy have been for a few years now, I like to think we held on pretty good so far, considering how ridiculously expensive SL can be. So, don't need to panic just yet.
I'll reply to specific bits and pieces of people's posts here in this one mega-reply!
It doesn't hurt to spend a month looking for people to commit some L$ to the sim, or even try to get creative about how to incent people to do it. RL, the reason they do the pledge drives where they give away t-shirts and mugs is because those drives work. 50-50 raffles work too. Little perks work, that way people feel like they have some skin in the game and aren't just giving away something for nothing.
Well, we can't offer any 'real' items, but if we do get dedicated sponsors, people who pledge to help with the bill every month, I can without hesitation offer them anything I make in SL for them to have. Also we could look into the 'homes rental' idea that's gone about several times. The problem is it's not as simple as telling someone they can have a spot in the sim for an OOC home, there are logistics involved with that, such as area size, prim count, prims vs. cost proportions... Sure in the end getting something, even if disproportional to the amount of money you're donating, is better than getting just a warm and heartfelt thank you!. We can look into the possibilities. I'm not beyond offering incentives for our sponsors, it all depends on what everyone will want. :)
I think a sponsorship would be a tenuous and unreliable thing to try and make happen. Yes it would help us keep the current sim, however I think that the current sim does have a lot of fat on it and there's much more space than is needed for our current population density.
You are correct on both accounts, Sen. I won't point any fingers, but since the beginning I've heard the old "yeah I will help!" talk, and on the first time they did help, and seemed joyful about it! Some made it to the second time without me having to remind them... but for certain the third time, I had to chase people around and remind them that they committed to help us. Don't take this wrong, I know we have committed and reliable people amongst us, but unfortunately they are not the norm.
And we do have a lot of extra space, and that works both for us and against us.
It's great to have all that space! We can have large-scale events/buildings/stuff happen! You want to be by yourself without a soul within a mile? Go hide in the forst or something and you're set.
But at same time, people spread out thin and that works against social interaction.
I'm afraid there isn't a solution for it.
As for Plan B - I actually like the idea of floating islands. There's so many ways to make that happen - a world torn asunder, the global population reduced to a trickle of individuals. It could make for a very interesting transition in the focus of the RP sim - from terrestrial threats to airborne ones. The introduction of magic-fueled airships, a heavier focus on Lismore as a trading hub (a last bastion for the exchange of currency, goods and ideas) and a new series of threats (airship piracy, winged beasts, 'deep ones' from the sunken world below) all become possible.
Yeah I've had 5 months to plan it, and you're not too far off from what I had in mind. ;)
I've gone ahead and taken a look at Ashtyn's builds for the Plan B, and I actually like them quite a bit. They're a little sparse, but they have everything we as an RP community currently need and use.
Thanks Sen. Those models are bare-bones, of course. They haven't been furnished and many details have been left out, so they look bare and not lived-in like the rest of the sim where we've had almost 3 years to make it our home.
I already tried to RP on the mainland as well but it just doesn't do it for me; whenever I've tried RPing on a RP parcel there, I keep being interrupted by non-roleplayers or have to endure shitty viewer performance, or other inconveniences.
Heck, the biggest reason I rarely TP out of Lismore today is that I can't stand the performance drops I experience by heading to the mainland, and I don't want my computer to overheat (again).
There are ways to minimize and even completely null all of those problems. First, the islands would be high up in the sky, hopefully far away from anything any neighbors might have floating around, so there is no ground-level superlag typical of the MainLand, and the amount of objects at those heights that your viewer would have to render is actually less than what we have in pretty much any level of Lismore.
Second, I considered encapsulating the RP areas with invisible mega-walls, to keep the potential high-flying random person from running into us.
What I would suggest would be to rather move the store we've got way up on top of Lismore to the mainland to release all the prims it consumes, and then downgrade the sim type/prim limit/whatever it is that makes the sim so expensive to reduce the tier cost.
For once, prims is not the problem. ;)
Downgrading the sim is the worse thing we could do. A 'downgrade' would mean turning our Full Sim into a Homestead. Homesteads are very nice if you want a giant open space, but they have 1/4 of the prims of a Full Sim, they have a limit of only 20 people in them at time, and those from the first months of Lismore will remember the frustration of not being able to log in or get to Lismore because the sim was full; Homesteads also have only 1/4 of the processing power of a Full Sim so the lag is unbearable for any social group, and they still cost US$135/month.
but imho, moving to the mainland has to remain a last resort option. All plots that could emerge from it notwithstanding, I'd like to see Lismore stay as a separate sim.
That, and moving elsewhere is a scary thought D:
You are 100% right on all accounts there! It's terrifying!
I would rather prefer a "whole" sim.
Though, if it comes to Plan B, I might be able to help out with a small place, to some degree. (How dubious that ever might sound from someone who made his first post in the forum with this ^^')
Hey, posting has to start somewhere. Welcome to the Forums! :)
...and I already have the place to implement Plan B. Thank you for your offer, though.
How short are you again on teir this month? I many be able to donate $20 tomorrow, as it is getting into gig season and I work as road crew.
This month's tier has been covered, and we have some rolled over for next month. If you donate tomorrow, it will go for next month's tier. If you donate 3 weeks from now, it will still go for that month's tier, so whenever you choose, it will help. I like to emphasize that nobody pockets a single L$ of what's donated to the sim. It all goes into paying the tier.
This month's tier has been taken care of. Thank you all who helped!
We have about L$40k already piled up for next month, thanks to some very generous donations, so as of now, next month's tier is L$40k short. We have about 30 days to make up that amount. :)
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Ill see what I can contribute even though I dont like to make long term pledges though this quarter, ill be able to work more hours.
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Something else that occured to me, what if we use the marketplace at the dock, as an actual market place for affliate vendors, since at least 90% of Lismores population is furry, you could get a fair few furry vendors who would want to pay to have their vendor there, just a thought mind you.
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Something else that occured to me, what if we use the marketplace at the dock, as an actual market place for affliate vendors, since at least 90% of Lismores population is furry, you could get a fair few furry vendors who would want to pay to have their vendor there, just a thought mind you.
Furry vendors (specially AV vendors) have been known to be notorious lag monsters. Besides, our folks don't get a new AV every day, so sales would come from people popping into the midst of our RP area, creating potential hassle and awkward situations. Oh and vendors tend to be primmy.
Then, for it to generate significant income, we'd need dozens of vendors paying high prices to rent a spot with us. It's just not viable.
The sad reality is that a Full Sim isn't something you can afford on pocket change. The numbers are all scary when dealing with private regions.
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Alright, so let's try to keep our big sim afloat!
I have set the donation boxes to my alt Avatar Nootan, to keep the donations money separate from my own, to make it easier to keep track of it. People can donate at the boxes or directly to Ashtyn Ninetails if they prefer, just if you donate directly to me I will put it in the box, to keep the numbers there accurate.
So yes, if you donate and it says you paid Avatar Nootan, don't freak out, that's how it's supposed to be.
I left the tier cost set at L$65k on the donation boxes, and I'll be covering the rest, but we need to have 100% of that L$65k by the end of every month.
Thanks once again to everyone who helps with Lismore's tier!